Kameryn Alexa Carter :  Hi friends. My name is Kameryn Alexa Carter, and I'm one of the founding editors of Emergent Literary. Happy summer. On the heels of publishing our second issue, we wanted to create something for you to put in your ears. As you walk, as you train, as you cook, as you move through the swelter-- this is Sonic Summer. As part of this project, I was delighted to virtually connect with Ariana Brown for a conversation about language and being, and many other things. Ariana Brown is a queer black, Mexican American poet from San Antonio, Texas currently based in Houston. She's the author of We Are Owed and Sana Sana. Ariana's work investigates queer black personhood in Mexican American spaces, black relationality and girlhood, loneliness, and care. She holds a BA in African diaspora studies and Mexican American studies, an MFA and poetry, and is pursuing an MLS in library science. Ariana is a 2014 national collegiate poetry slam champion and owes much of her practice to black performance communities led by black women poets from the south. She's been writing, performing and teaching poetry for over 10 years. Follow Ariana online at Arianathepoet. Thanks for joining us.

KAC:                      So I wanted to start with the title. Um, I'm really struck by the use of the period in your title. <laugh> um, I love its definitiveness. Its declarative tone. Um, and for me it allows me before I even enter the book to just stand in that statement really definitively. Um, and it just feels very intentional. And so I wanted to ask you, you know, to talk a little bit more about, um, what that period opens up for you or what it means to you.

Ariana Brown:   Yeah. Thank you for noting that <laugh>, it’s been like a little pet peeve of mine that sometimes when folks write the title, they don't put the period in there. I'm like, no, that's, that's part of the title. <laugh> that's in there. Um, yeah, I mean, one of the things I was thinking, I mean, the title of this book changed a lot while I was writing it. Uh, but when it became, We are Owed., I was like, oh, this, this is the final one. And I think there is something about the period that suggests finality, um, because I didn't want, cause I thought about leaving a period off of it. But I didn't want for people to fill in the, in the blank: we are owed, you know, this, this, this, and this cause that would always end up being exclusive of all of the things that we are owed. This felt like the whole statement. And if you have to ask what the things are, then you haven't, you haven't done the reading, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, yeah, there's a lot more that I'm thinking, but I think that is the thing that most succinctly answers your question.

KAC:                      I love that. Thanks. That that really helps. It's something that I couldn't stop thinking about. Um, <laugh> and I really appreciated that. I also wanted to ask, I know you're also a performer and I listened to your wonderful EP Let Us Be Enough. And I wanted to ask you a little bit about your relationship between poems on the page and poems aloud and sort of how you work through composing-- when you compose, do you read aloud as you go? Um, and also like, do you feel that there's a distinction between, um, the media that you use in terms of aloud or on the page? I know on the page you use a lot of typography, um, thinking of “Aguacate” and just the way that you play around with space on the page, but there's also a way that you audibly play around with space, um, when you're performing too. And so I just wanted to hear you talk a little bit more about that.

AB:                         Yeah, that's a great question. Um, yeah, I mean, I have been performing my poems aloud live for over 13 years now. And so that's the primary way I prefer to receive poems actually is to hear them. Um, it just sticks with me better than if I read it on a page at this point, that's, you know, my body just sort of trained in that, in that way. Um, but I think the page and the stage both have their limits. And so, because I was on stage for so long, um, in those performance and slam communities, um, competing, you know, being in the audience while other people are, are, are performing or competing. Um, and there was something that kind of struck me about slam and slam culture, where, you know, if you go up three times in a slam, people expect your poems to be about different things each time and you get on stage.

AB:                         And so if you have a poem on a certain topic, there's sort of this expected idea that all your thoughts on that topic should be in that one poem. And when I started really getting into some of the history that's that I write about and we are owed, I felt like I wanted more time to linger, you know, and I wanted more time to be uncertain, um, and to, to have some time to figure things out, as opposed to putting together this very neatly packaged, um, poem where I was sort of very sure about everything that I was saying and super confident I wanted. Um, and I, I feel like the page, like writing poems, um, that are not gonna be read aloud or that maybe don't necessarily lend themselves immediately to being read aloud. Um, gave me a little bit more space to work through, um, to, to really tease out an idea over a collection.

AB:                         Um, and to have these sort of, um, my friend Sasha, um, Sasha Banks, we started writing our manuscripts together at the same time. And she used to, she used to call them sister poems, like poems in a suite, you know, cause you can't really do that in, in a slam to have poem, to do a poem that someone wouldn't understand if they hadn't read or heard all of the other poems around it. And I was like, oh, I'm very interested in that. Cause I've never explored that idea before. Uh, and so I think from there, it began from there, I started to really ask, okay, well now that I know the limits of the stage, I wanna know, I wanna test the limits of the page too. Like how far can I explore, um, what are all of the things I can do when I'm writing with this medium in mind, knowing that the other thing about writing for the stage, um, is that people have to be able to understand what you're saying after hearing you say it only once whereas if you write on the page, people can return to and go, oh, what did this person say?

AB:                         Or let me go back to this other poem that's being referred to here. Um, and I wanted that sort of, um, that lingering, that sense of lingering, uh, in this collection.

KAC:                      That's amazing. Thank you. Something I heard you say is “receive” that you receive poems and that really resonated with me. And I, I wanna know. I mean, do you feel like this is work that's conduit work? You know, is it conjure work for you? I think absolutely. That there's something about, you know, writing that is being a conduit for not only your own lineage, but your poetic lineage and, um, just the, the voice of your yourself that's coming through you right through the poems. And, um, I just, I love that idea of receiving them. And I just wanted to know if it, if it feels like, like conduit, conjure work for you…

AB:                         <laugh> absolutely. I have 100% and, and you know, I, all of my, like most important earliest mentors were black women poets from the south were dark skinned, black women poets from the south. Um, Andrea Sanderson, who goes by Vocab she's from San Antonio. She drove me to my first poetry slam. She knows my mama, you know, um, Ebony Stewart from Houston, Texas is one of my longest friends. One of my, uh, probably my most important coach and mentor I've ever had. Um, she, um, I think it was Ebony that taught me that what you're describing, um, because when we would go to nationals, when I was still a youth poet, um, Ebony was very clear that, and this was more about like the performance part of it, right. That, um, that she was like, when you go on stage, sometimes you don't know what's gonna happen, right?

AB:                         Like you might have done this poem a thousand times. You think, you know it front and back, you might get on stage at nationals and you have this emotional reaction that you weren't expecting at all. Right. And so she was very adamant about, um, taking care of our teammates. Um, but also she had us write on our hands or on a slip of paper, the names of the people we were taking on stage with us. So we didn't feel alone. And if there was any one, you know, sometimes youth poet, they nervous in particular ways, you know, she would be like, okay, well imagine somebody, you know, whoever you wrote on your hand, imagine that person it's on the other side of just look right there, not to look at anyone else. Um, and so it was this sort of understanding that when you go into performance, you are entering a ceremonial space, right?

AB:                         Like there are rules, there are rules in the slam, uh, there's a, a start and end time you prepare for it. Right. You bring your people and your reinforcement with you, and then you exit the space and you have your teammate to care for you afterwards, after you get off the stage. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and so I always understood performance as being spiritual work of some kind, even if we didn't really have the language for it then. Um, and I feel like that those ideas that Ebony introduced to me as a youth poet at 17 and 18, those stuck with me once I started writing really deeply about history and ancestry. For sure.

KAC:                      Yeah. And part, I mean, part of what I'm hearing you say too, is about the, the importance of community and about having those yeah. Support networks. I think sometimes as artists, we tend to be very narcissistic in our craft. And so I think that something that I found in reading your work and even just talking to you just now is just how crucial those, those pantheons are those voices, um, that we carry with us not only, you know, in the past, but also in the present those, those communities that we work in and work with are so crucial. Yeah. And sort of along those lines, I like throughout the book you use capital I, and also lowercase i, and I wanted to ask about that. I wanted to know, is there something that you're questioning there about, um, about that type of, you know, sort of self-centered and I don't mean that in a pejorative way, but just like self-focused, um, work, is there something, um, about that lowercase eye that is subversive or playful for you? Um, you know, are you playing with the authorial voice? I feel like often as artists, you know, black and brown artists, people project us onto our works so much <laugh> as poet. Um, and so I wonder if there's something there that you're, that you're experimenting with. I was really interested in that.

AB:                         Where that's really funny because I don't know that there is anything, uh, particularly intentional about that. I try to look at, with, with respect to that, I try to look at it just poem by poem, like what makes more sense which I think is a thing, you know, that I'm, I always feel like I'm still figuring out how poems should or could look on the page, because for, like I said, for most of my poetry life, most of my time in poetry, um, it doesn't matter in the slam what your poems look like on the page. Nobody cares where the line breaks are. They can't hear 'em <laugh> you, you know, so figuring out things about the page was, is still, I think, feels new to me and is not intuitive to the way that I write. I tend to just write in large chunks of texts, like big paragraphs, and I'll go in later and break it up if I have to. Um, but if I don't have to it'll stay in my notebook, looking like that. So, I think there are some poems that are all in lowercase and for those ones, I was like, it just feels silly to have a capital. But yeah, I tried to just go poem by poem and see what felt right. Which I don't know if that's the right way to do it. That's how I do it. <laugh>

KAC:                      I don't think there is a right or wrong, and I think going off of impulse and the way things feel is so neglected in poetry worlds. Right. And I just to hear you say that is so important for me, because it's like, it is, it's, you're moving through this thing that is so sensory and is so you know, about the way you feel. And so, um, yeah, I really appreciate you saying that. Um, another question that I had was about language and languages. Um, there's a point and We Are Owed., um, where you make reference to Anzaldua, and you say like, I don't wanna use her language, you know, and it's about creating new languages. Right. And, um, I'm also thinking about Teotihuacan and this idea of the contrapuntal or, you know, where you thinking about, um, those lines being read down and enter the side.

KAC:                      And just ways of creating new language and new modes of language feel really present in this book as you negotiate between multiple languages and things like that. Um, and yeah, I just wanted to know, just like how, how it feels for you to be, um, creating new modes and kind of what got you there. Um, I know that it's definitely a journey from like using languages that, uh, are given to us by colonizers. Right. And, and trying to negotiate that with who we are. Right. And so, yeah, I just wanted to know, like, what does it mean to create new modes of language for you? Um, cause I do think you do it for sure.

AB:                         Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you saying that, yeah, I mean, it's funny that you pointed to that, that one little aside about Anzaldua because I thought for a long time that I was going to do erasures of Borderlands/La Frontera: The New Mestiza. So I read that book cover to cover, um, had a terrible time. <laugh> Tried to figure out, okay, you know, how am I gonna, (my workshop was probably so sick of me turning in from these erasures of this book) Um, cause I was really trying, I was really trying to commit cause I was like her--the legacy of that book is so present in Mexican American studies. And this book is so anti that, that even though I didn't want to deal with Anzaldua in the collection, I felt like I had to.

AB:                         And so, you know, I'm going through, I'm trying to figure out how I can make these erasures work. And at a certain point I was like, they're just not going to work. I just don't want her language to be in the book-- that goes against what we are owed. You know, I don't wanna to recreate her language even if I'm trying to violently insert myself in it, there just, wasn't a way that worked. And so I gave up on that and I said, I will just allude to Borderlands in some of the titles of the poems. Snd if you know what I'm doing, if you're picking up on what I'm doing then cool. And if you've never heard of Anzaldua, she's not in the selected reading, so you won't know where to go. <laugh> right. But I was thinking about that.

AB:                         What you're talking about, about creating, well, I don't know if it's necessarily creating new languages, but I think that aside comes right before alternate names for pelo malo, which is the only poem that's all in Spanish. And when I was like, I had to like make new new ones or new words, um, I, for a while back, I had asked different Afro Latinx Twitter users to share the words that they used to describe black hair and like black hair tools, in Spanish, because I realized since most of the Spanish I've learned has been in non-black spaces. That's an area that I, I just don't even know how to talk about in Spanish. And they shared with me, okay, this is the word for kinky is the word for braids. This is the word for hot comb, you know? And I was like, all right, great. You know, I'm writing this down. But then I wanted to kind of have little definitions. And so I came up with my own language for that. And so for me, that was a way of like, sort of thinking through that question that you're asking, um, but also rejecting the, the language that Anzaldua offers us.

KAC:                      You also, um, you quote Dionne Brand, or you allude to Dionne Brand, um, and you know, thinking a lot about black feminist hauntology when you speak about lineage and you know, when we're talking about inheritances and, um, I, you know, right after the Dionne Brand quote, um, or not quote, when you allude to Dion brand, um, you have the Yanga series and I just, we talked a little bit about conduits just now, too, but like, there's this sense of being an interlocutor. Um, and then you have the volver and just the idea of like returning being its own kind of haunting maybe. Um, and so I guess I just wanted to ask you, like, do you feel like being haunted can be a blessing and sort of a curse? Is it both, um, is it a curse at all? Can it just be like an opening for us? I guess how do you feel about, about the presence of haunting in the book? And in general.

AB:                         Yeah. Yeah. I'm just sitting with that question. Cause I feel like there's a lot that's coming up for me right now. Mm-hmm <affirmative> there's I think there's um, and it is the, it is a quote from, from Map to the Door of No Return that you're talking about that comes right before the Yanga poems. I think that, I think that the way that it's being used there makes me think that, um, like the haunting is not Yanga or like any of my ancestors. Right. But the haunting is, is white supremacy is the legacy of white supremacy. And the fact that I learned how to look for Yanga and how to find him in those places where I was told that he wasn’t that he was not, I think that that part was the blessing that you're speaking to.

AB:                         Cause I mean, even you used the word opening and I thought that that was a useful word too, because when I think about the way that Brand talks about the door of no return, I picked the cover art for the book, one of the reasons I chose this image is because the woman is standing in what it looks like a doorway. And I was thinking about it as, okay, this could be a, you know, the door, the door of no return, an opening a passage way, but also a site of, of haunting. But also like a person that you have to learn to look for, you know, like when I was in Mexico City for the study abroad that I talk about in the book, I saw two other black people the entire six weeks that I was there.

AB:                         So it was very lonely, very isolated. You know, I'm doing this research project on Black people in Mexico during the colonial period, and I'm just, you know, I'm finding no community, I'm looking as hard as I can. And the last week that I was there, a classmate of mine sent me a YouTube video about Yanga that I quote in “Field Notes” and, you know, come to find out Mexico City was one of the major slave ports during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. So sort of all of this invisibility that I'm experiencing all of these ridiculous reactions that locals are having to me and my hair while I'm there, you know, all of this spectacle is sort of under like there's this undercurrent of Yanga’s presence. And these presences that I have to learn to, to tune into and learn how to look for. Um, so I feel like all of that is sort of wrapped up in this idea of, of haunting that you're speaking about.

KAC:                      I really, I really love that. And I resonate with the tuning in, I've been thinking a lot about poetry as attunement and, and sort of listening in. I wanted to ask about your process again. I know I just asked about it. But I sort of wanted to ask, like, what comes first for you? Like, does a sound provoke, you, you know, does an image come to you? Do you get sort of fixated on a word and follow that? You know, I just wanted to know-- I'm sure every poem doesn't come to you the same way, but, what is your sort of your mode in most of the time?

AB:                         Yeah, that's a great question. Um, for me, it's sort of twofold, um, particularly with this collection, because I had very clear goals for what I wanted the book to do, then that's once I had a clear vision of what it was, right. Cause this book looked totally different when I started it, I thought it was gonna be doing some other things that it did not need to be doing <laugh> before it became this. But once I was clear on my, on the vision of the book, I sort of made a list of goals. Okay. This is what I want. These are the things I want the book to do. These are the things I don't want the book to do. Um, and so I tried to write into those, uh, places and every time I thought I had a draft of the book, I would go in and annotate it and, and ask of each poem, what is this poem doing?

AB:                         Is it doing the things I don't want it to do? Or the things I do want it to do, um, and continue to write until I could fill in all of the gaps. Um, and so I feel like, um, for how are poems coming to me, I kept going back to those goals and trying to be like, okay, what things can I write about that will address these goals that I'm trying to meet? Um, because I think of like, this book is very clear in its politics, you know, and I wanted that for sure. And so that was sort of one thing where I'd be like, okay, I have this idea or this memory or this experience or this song that I could write about. But then finding the, I call it a window, finding the window, like, what is the writing prompt, right.

AB:                         That's not like, it's not, what are you writing about, but how are you going to write about it? And for me, I really love, um, image, heavy poems. I love images and that's not say, I think poems without images. Aren't good. That's just my personal, like cup of tea. And so anything that would get me to start thinking about, okay, these are some images I could use. I love me a word association list, you know, little word bank, have it with me. Um, but I read a lot of Aracelis Girmay and Patricia Smith, because their work always makes me wanna write.

KAC:                      I feel that way. I mean, I'm, I'm very sound based. And so I'm, I'm image based too, but thinking of like people like Patricia Smith and, and even thinking of like the idea that you created an EP is so exciting for me because I'm like bring poetry EPs back!

KAC:                      But yeah, I think that like coming in through the window, as you say, is such an amazing way to frame it. But I mean, I also just wanna ask, like, who are you reading right now? I think that that's sort of the standard question, but I mean, I can open it up too to like, who are you reading, who are you listening to? You know, what are you watching? Yeah. Like, cause I think all of those things, um, you know, feed into, you know, text.

AB:                         Yeah, absolutely. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now. <laugh> Cause I actually haven't read poetry in a minute. I've just been trying to do some pleasure readings. I've been reading a lot of Kacen Callender: the Black trans YA author. I just reading a lot of like young adult fiction about Black queer and trans characters, you know? I didn't get that when I was growing up. So now's the time. So reading a lot of that, but that's not helping me write, so stuff that helps me write... Um, what was the last thing I read? Well, I just actually, I just read --Ebony had a-- her last book that came out earlier this month actually it's called Blood Fresh. Fantastic. Oh man. I wrote a poem after I finished it. It was so good. So good. I feel like Ebony's writing is very clear. There's lots of images in Blood Fresh, but it's also fast paced, you know, it's like, you're either with me or you're not, but I'm not gonna wait for you. Like, come meet me where I'm where I am. And I love that so much. And I also read, um, oh, I read this book. I blurbed this book, um, Sarah Nwafor.  

KAC:                      Oh yeah. I, I just actually put it in my cart

AB:                         <laugh> oh, no way. Oh, you're gonna love it. It's so good. It's so good.

KAC:                      We did a reading together recently and I was stunned, stunned, stunned by Sarah's work. It's amazing. Yeah.

AB:                         They're so intentional, you know, and for someone who is--I wish I had had that clarity about myself when I was Sarah's age. Yeah. Like I just, I, I really do. So I really admire their work and also their their commitment to their own tenderness, which is sometimes very disarming to me. The way that they protect their tenderness is really amazing. And I, I aspire to be able to do that in my personal life and also in my writing. So Sarah’s someone who I study very deeply.

KAC:                      I love that I'm gonna have to make a post of all the people you've mentioned and, um, and put it together so that people can, can take a look.

AB:                         Sure.

KAC:                      I wanted to ask you a silly question, which is--, it's that question of like, if you were throwing a dinner party and you could invite, you know, I, I'm not gonna give you a number of people. <laugh>

AB:                         Okay. <laugh>

KAC:                      But if you could invite anyone in the entire world, multiple worlds, um, would you invite, um, and it can be absolutely anyone. Yeah. I'm curious.

AB:                         Oh, that's, that's a complicated question. Cause I'm, I'm also thinking about like personalities, like what would mix well…

KAC:                      Curating a vibe is very delicate.

AB:                         <laugh> yeah. You know, I'm a Libra, so I'm like, well, I'm a Libra rising. So I'm like balance. Yeah. You know, it's, it's gotta be balanced. Um, I'm really not sure. I feel like I would just invite my friends cause that seems like the most like low stakes. Yeah. My friends are brilliant.

KAC:                      Especially after two years of not being together.

AB:                         Like yeah, absolutely. Starting with all the greats. I don't…it seems a little high stakes <laugh>

KAC:                      No, I love it. I love it. I think that going back to that community aspect, it's like I saw someone on Twitter say, when I teach certain scholars, I like to mention who their friends were and like who they were working with at the time that they were writing. And I just thought that was so dope cause I'm like, we couldn't do it without each other. And we are, you know, we're so influenced by people in community with us and yes, I think that's part of what we're trying to do with Emergent Literary is just create these communities. And so I'm really thankful for people like you who, um, have graciously offered to be in community with us. Yeah. I'm just, I'm thankful for you to, you know, come talk to me. It's it's been such a treasure. Um, I'm trying to think if there's anything else I wanna ask you. Yeah.

AB:                         Take your time.

KAC:                      Let's see. I had my little list. I think that might be everything that I wanted to ask. Um, this has been so wonderful. Yeah. Um, do you have any questions that you wanna be asked? <laugh>

AB:                         Oh, plot twist. Um, that's a good question. Let me, let me have a moment to think about that. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, that's a question I don't get asked a lot. <laugh>

KAC:                      It's a strange question.

AB:                         No, I appreciate it. Um, what am I working on now?

KAC:                      What are you working on now?

AB:                         I'm trying to figure that out. <laugh> I think the project I'm working on is kind of taking shape. I've just been kind of writing for a little while. I had a period last year where writing just completely stopped cause my life changed in some big ways. And I needed the dust to settle, but I've been writing through kind of like I, I said in an artist talk earlier today, like I think a lot about what the world owes black women and girls, um, and sort of how that shows up in with uh, certain family members that I have. Um, and so I'm writing a lot about right now about Blackness and girlhood, but also expectations of gender and how they'll show up in romantic relationships. And sort of like also piecing my life together after a breakup.

AB:                         And so all of those things feel related, they feel related, um, and I'm trying to work through them in poems, but I think that, um, you know, I've put together a chapbook, I've done an EP. I did a full length. I think I'm really interested in that aspect of like multimedia, like zines. Yeah. Um, you know, my friend Alan is so big on like visual poems and visual work and I'm not really a visual person, you know, but I listen to the way Alan talks about it and I took a workshop with them where they did, it was about visual poems. And I feel like I wanna kind of try to like incorporate photos and writing on photos and just figuring out how else poems can look. Because I do think like I love to write in a variety of styles. Like We Are Owed. is a particular writing style.

AB:                         This is not how I write most of my work. And I really wanna go back to some of the more like plain spoken ways that I used to write before I was trying to get published, cause the stuff I used to write, people are not trying to publish that stuff. People don't wanna publish, slam poetry, you know, or, or stuff that's like really confessional unless it's written in this like more formal way. Um, and that's not intuitive to the way that I write, but I do think that something about like multimedia zines lend themselves to that style of writing really nicely to where you don't have to have a fully fleshed like poem idea, you can have three lines, you know, and it can be a thing that ties this poem and this essay together. And then there it is altogether in the zine. So I kind of wanna explore, I guess it's a different exploration into form with that. Yeah. But yeah, that's where, what I'm working on right now.

KAC:                      That sounds so dope. I'm excited to see what you do next. Um, thank you. Last question. Yeah. You know, we have a lot of young readers. I hesitate to say readers because there's so many different ways to engage with, you know, what we're trying to do outside of just reading, but I, I just wanna know what you would tell someone, you know, who was just coming up, and just discovering, you know, poetry for the first time, you know, what advice would you give them? And would you advise them to go about entering the space of poetry?

AB:                         Yeah, it's funny. I actually have an essay about this on my Patreon. Cause it's a question I get asked a lot by young writers, young poets, or even just new writers or new poets of any age. But yeah, my, my biggest two pieces of advice are to find your community, and write about whatever you wanna write about like finding the community piece is big, you know, I mean, we talked about that earlier, but um, that was an integral part of my introduction to poetry and what, the reason I stayed in it for so long. I know a lot of people who were introduced to slam, but didn't have the kind of community that I did where people were really intentional about caring for each other and for themselves.

AB:                         And they didn't stick with it for as long, you know, or they don't have the best memories of it. But I think find the people who are doing the things you wanna be doing, and if you can't find them, then start a thing, start a thing and the people will come, you know, and it's gonna, it might be…what's the word? You might be a group of misfits you know what I mean of kind of like these personalities you didn't think were gonna go well together, but people surprise you, you know, people really surprise you. So find your people, and stick with them because also the longer you do this, I feel, you know, and you might feel this way too, the longer you're sort of in these like professional literary and publishing spaces, the more doubt that will try to be instilled in you about what you know and what you know, how to do.

AB                          And if you have your people with you from the jump, then they will be there to lean on when you are having those moments of doubt, you know? And that's crucial. I really feel that is crucial. And then, yeah, I always say, as long as you are making art that's in line with your politics and you're not harming anybody that is not an oppressor, write about whatever you wanna write about. I feel like I come across this idea a lot among Black poets in particular where folks feel like Black poets need to be writing about Black things or Black issues, but it's like, you know, like who am I to tell, you know, a Black teenager, that she can't write a poem about the stars. If she wants to write about it let her, write about the stars, you know, if it, if it brings her joy, if it's a thing she's passionate about and interested in enough, write to poem about it. I think that should be honored too. Like not every poem has to be a certain thing. So yeah. Write about whatever you want. Don't let nobody tell you you can't.

KAC:                      I love it. All right. Um, well, I will let you go, but I, I just appreciate you so much. This has been so enlightening and so wonderful. Um, and I, I just can't wait for people to listen. Thank you so much.

AB:                         Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're a fantastic interviewer by the way.

KAC:                      Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

KAC:                      Thank you all so much for listening and don't forget, you can follow Ariana on socials at Arianathepoet. You can find us online at emergentliterary.com on Twitter at emergentjournal and on Instagram at emergentliterary. Thank you all so much and talk soon.